378 people were murdered at the Nova music festival in southern Israel on 7 October: 378 young people who just wanted to dance, let loose and party, as young people all over the world do at music festivals.
My father died 2 years ago-he was a hidden child in Amsterdam, the vast majority of our family murdered. My son is at Glastonbury. I wonder how a
conversation between them today might sound. After all the healing we’ve worked so hard on to achieve, I cannot believe I’m even considering this. Thank you again Dave, you articulate so perfectly much of what I think and feel.
I suggest you read Melanie Philipps latest article; she provides a bigger context as to what has unfolded in the last week in the West Bank. Apart from that, no other group of nationals gets attacked for what their home country or government is doing, or do you think chasing a few Russians or Sudanese down the streets would be in order? Or hunting down some Nigerian Muslims, after all they committed another massacre in Nigeria this last week against Christians - but let’s not bat an eyelid here shall we?
The only glimmer of hope is that when they chanted “Oh, Jeremy Corbyn” at Glastonbury in 2017, he went on to lead Labour to its worst defeat since 1935 and was later suspended from the very party he once led. Perhaps Glastonbury is a harbinger of better things to come.
If you’ve ever wondered how millions of seemingly ordinary people could have enabled centuries of vicious anti Jewish persecution, through the first pre Israel Holocaust and culminating in the Oct 7 massacres and beyond, now you know.
I think this is a dangerous conflation, Liora. People should be allowed to express their outrage at what they see (with plausible justification) as war crimes and possibly worse, without being called racist.
Legitimate criticism of any government is of course not only acceptable but encouraged in a free democracy. However when such accusations are based purely on double standards, specious arguments, outright lies and literal blood libels it crosses the line. And Jews have centuries of history proving what happens to them when it does.
On that note, do you see people attacking Russians and Chinese in the streets over their home nations’ current unprovoked genocidal actions, both by word and deed (the opposite of the situation in Gaza) against the Ukrainians and Uyghurs?
So we have at least some common ground in dialogue - important when it's the only path to peace.
I also agree with you that attacking people in the street is unacceptable - whoever they are. I've been to 5 national Palestine marches and I've never seen the sizeable jewish contingent attacked. On the contrary, their presence is celebrated.
I agree also that anti-semitism is a problem. But I fear that conflating criticism of the IDF's and Israel's actions in the West Bank and Gaza with anti-semitism is counter-productive. When people hear of a rise in anti-semitic incidents, it risks them thinking "are they counting anti-Israel chants as anti-semitic?"
I also think your question about the differing attitudes to Russia or China's actions vs Israel's is legitimate. But isn't the distinction that the major political parties in this UK call Israel an ally, are prepared to supply arms and abstain or veto UN resolutions condemning its actions in a way that they don't with Russia or China or Syria etc etc.
The oxymoronic antiZionist Jews at pro Hamas protests are of course welcomed, they provide a sheen of legitimacy to justify the blatant expressions of outright Jew hatred. Sadly, the phenomenon of the self hating “kapo Jew” is not uncommon throughout Jewish history. Whether through profound ignorance or some deep seated psychological need (ie Stockholm Syndrome) such individuals turn their backs on their own people, land, culture and history. What they never understand until it is too late is that there is no great success in being on the last train to Auschwitz.
You might appreciate this article by the great Melanie Phillips:
The attitudes of people in a society towards their minority Jewish populations versus Russian/Chinese is completely unrelated to the policies of one government to another.
It’s actually quite simple to ascertain in this particular conflict which side represents the good guys. Ask yourself one question: what would happen should each of the adversaries somehow lose all their military capabilities? If Iran and their proxies laid down their weapons, there would be no more war. If Israel laid down its weapons, there would be no more Israel.
The inability of so many to distinguish between aggressors and defenders is one of the great moral failings of our age.
Thanks for replying, Liora. I’m afraid I gave up on Melanie Phillips long ago. Bit of a waste of time when so much of her output is based on half-truths and plain hatred: “…the cause of ‘Palestine’ [her quote marks] is founded entirely upon the aim of annihilating Israel…”. Difficult or pointless to debate such historical inaccuracies. But, at the risk of repeating myself, I do seriously worry about the continued conflation of anti-Zionism or anti-Israeli government feeling with anti-Semitism? Don’t you feel that it might lead you to a position of defending the indefensible? Under that standard, is there any criticism you would broach of Israel for anything?// I’ll pass over the ad hominem attacks and use of labels, ‘kapo’, self-hating etc - I don’t think it addresses the issues at hand and it reminds me too much of the Apartheid regime labelling anyone who was against it as a communist. It feels like it’s intended to stifle any alternative views and shut down any analytical challenge. And I want to avoid getting into doctrine as I accept there are many shades not suitable for social media, but surely it can’t be a tenable position to equate an ethnic and religious identity exclusively to a nation State? //On your last point about Israel acting as guarantor of the safety of Jewish people in the Mid East, I think this is a useful point to make. But could it also be argued that its actions, especially that the world is witnessing in Gaza, is actually make it a threat to the lives and safety of Jewish people. Is it credible to think that continued policy and IDF operations will make the problem go away? The point is surely to pursue a robust pathway to peace that guarantees some autonomy for Palestinians in a homeland? That surely is the only basis for a durable peace
If you would like to spend a bit of time down the psychological rabbit hole, check out this deeply insightful article from Jan 2025 - make sure to link to the articles in Fathom Journal by Prof Eve Gerrard which inspired the piece.
I’m so frustrated with the current government I could scream it from the rooftops - I spent two years as a prolific commenter in the Times of Israel expressing my political views, until it became a cesspool of vile Jew hatred and I quit. Now I read Substack and other articles by gifted people who are able to distinguish the essence of good vs evil before the nuances are debated.
Check out Pat Johnson - gay progressive nonJewish Canadian Zionist. One of the best writers out there.
Have you ever visited Israel? Participated in any of the antigovernment protests? I live here and I have. But criticism of the Israeli government is not what is going on at any of those so-called “pro Palestine” protests, which would only be truly in support of the Arabs of Palestine if their genocidal leaders were criticized - which they never are.
Not a fan of Melanie Phillips? She literally states historical truth. Would you prefer the left wing Einat Wilf who says the same thing?
“His Majesty’s Government have thus been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles … For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine”
Quote by British Foreign Minister Ernest Bevin in February 1947 in a speech to the British Parliament explaining why Britain can no longer carry out the mandate with which it was entrusted by the League of Nations and thus sending it back to the United Nation.
Note the date - February 1947: there is no Israel, no refugees, no occupation, no settlements, no blockade - none of the ‘understandable causes’ for Palestinian violence that even the UN Secretary General has fallen for.
And yet, already in February 1947 it is crystal clear why the conflict is already “irreconcilable”: as a matter of top priority, “the essential point of principle”, the Jews want a state whereas as a matter of top priority the Arabs of the land (later known as Palestinians) seek “to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty *in any part* of Palestine”.
That’s the conflict. The Jews want a state in even a part of the land. The Palestinians want the Jews not to have a state in any part of the land. That’s “Free Palestine”. That’s “From the River to the Sea”.
I wouldn't waste any more time with this obvious supporter of Palestinian terrorism, and mass rallies calling for the murder of Jews, which he/she/it is attempting to legitimize.
He is dialoguing respectfully (so far) so I will do the same. If I can perhaps help him to rethink deeply ingrained yet incorrect beliefs it is worth it.
Lets not forget that Hizbolla helped the Asad regime comit a genocide in Syria during the civil war there, including starving over 100,000 Palestinians in the Yarmuk refugee camp, mudered yezidis and and traffic in Yezidi women. Those Yezidi women who refused to become sex slaves were burnt alive. All these sins are falslynprojected onto the IDF, because, well, these western idiots fall for it.
Hi Jo. I've been to 6 national Free Palestine marches in London. In all of them, I've never heard any say death to Israel or Jews. I'm guessing you've not been to one, but it might help to know that one of the slogans is "love Judaism, hate Zionism". Oh, and the Jewish bloc of marchers and individuals wearing badges identifying themselves as Jewish seems to grow every march.
I have not attended but have watched some on video. Putting Jews as tokens in the foreground is not new. I have seen red triangles, swastikas, calls to "globalize the intifada," bloody red hand symbols, signs equating Israeli's with Nazis, and various and relentless riffs on the blood libel. These marchers are marching for the violent elimination of the state of Israel, no? Many wear Hamas garb.
Hi Jo. In all the marches I’ve been on, I’ve not seen red triangles, swastikas or “globalise the intifada”. On one occasion I saw 3 people, amongst tens of thousands, that could be described as wearing garb looking a bit like the Al Aqsa Brigade, but I can’t read arabic so not sure. But certainly nothing on the blood libel. Also, I don’t think your caricature of “putting Jews as tokens in the foreground” is fair. Many are there as individuals and not “put” by anyone. Some come in small and some large groups, all marching as they want. Those I’ve spoken to say they’re there because it’s on the side of justice and humanity and they feel Israel’s actions are the antithesis of what they feel Judaism is about. You should come along as an observer and make your own judgement about who is coming to those marches and why.
Calling Israel genocidal is ignorant and/or malicious.
Israel has been responding to Arab attacks since before statehood in 1948.
Israel has never "destroyed" Arabs or any subgroup thereof. It has never intended to eliminate all or any part of that group.
On the other hand, many Arab groups are specifically genocidal.
Those using the venomous slur of genocide against Israel and the Jewish people should be aware that this bad faith indulgence in hostility has dangerous repercussions both for the Jewish people and for themselves.
Fair minded people recognize the difference between criticizing Israel's war tactics and falsely defaming a nation and a people. The noxious accusations will not be forgotten.
Horrible, horrible! Symptoms of the deplorable groupthink created and encouraged by social media. I was reading a Noahpinion Substack on the nomadic future when life is lived mostly online. Made me feel anxious
They will insist that they don’t hate Jews. They only hate the Jews who fight back.
My father died 2 years ago-he was a hidden child in Amsterdam, the vast majority of our family murdered. My son is at Glastonbury. I wonder how a
conversation between them today might sound. After all the healing we’ve worked so hard on to achieve, I cannot believe I’m even considering this. Thank you again Dave, you articulate so perfectly much of what I think and feel.
He would probably have been disgusted by the actions of settlers in the West Bsnk and the IDF in Gaza.
Why would he? Israel belongs to the Jews and has done long before Islam or Christianity existed. It is their land to defend
I suggest you read Melanie Philipps latest article; she provides a bigger context as to what has unfolded in the last week in the West Bank. Apart from that, no other group of nationals gets attacked for what their home country or government is doing, or do you think chasing a few Russians or Sudanese down the streets would be in order? Or hunting down some Nigerian Muslims, after all they committed another massacre in Nigeria this last week against Christians - but let’s not bat an eyelid here shall we?
Your father is probably disgusted by a son who runs cover for Hamas.
The only glimmer of hope is that when they chanted “Oh, Jeremy Corbyn” at Glastonbury in 2017, he went on to lead Labour to its worst defeat since 1935 and was later suspended from the very party he once led. Perhaps Glastonbury is a harbinger of better things to come.
If you’ve ever wondered how millions of seemingly ordinary people could have enabled centuries of vicious anti Jewish persecution, through the first pre Israel Holocaust and culminating in the Oct 7 massacres and beyond, now you know.
I think this is a dangerous conflation, Liora. People should be allowed to express their outrage at what they see (with plausible justification) as war crimes and possibly worse, without being called racist.
Legitimate criticism of any government is of course not only acceptable but encouraged in a free democracy. However when such accusations are based purely on double standards, specious arguments, outright lies and literal blood libels it crosses the line. And Jews have centuries of history proving what happens to them when it does.
On that note, do you see people attacking Russians and Chinese in the streets over their home nations’ current unprovoked genocidal actions, both by word and deed (the opposite of the situation in Gaza) against the Ukrainians and Uyghurs?
I don’t.
So we have at least some common ground in dialogue - important when it's the only path to peace.
I also agree with you that attacking people in the street is unacceptable - whoever they are. I've been to 5 national Palestine marches and I've never seen the sizeable jewish contingent attacked. On the contrary, their presence is celebrated.
I agree also that anti-semitism is a problem. But I fear that conflating criticism of the IDF's and Israel's actions in the West Bank and Gaza with anti-semitism is counter-productive. When people hear of a rise in anti-semitic incidents, it risks them thinking "are they counting anti-Israel chants as anti-semitic?"
I also think your question about the differing attitudes to Russia or China's actions vs Israel's is legitimate. But isn't the distinction that the major political parties in this UK call Israel an ally, are prepared to supply arms and abstain or veto UN resolutions condemning its actions in a way that they don't with Russia or China or Syria etc etc.
The oxymoronic antiZionist Jews at pro Hamas protests are of course welcomed, they provide a sheen of legitimacy to justify the blatant expressions of outright Jew hatred. Sadly, the phenomenon of the self hating “kapo Jew” is not uncommon throughout Jewish history. Whether through profound ignorance or some deep seated psychological need (ie Stockholm Syndrome) such individuals turn their backs on their own people, land, culture and history. What they never understand until it is too late is that there is no great success in being on the last train to Auschwitz.
You might appreciate this article by the great Melanie Phillips:
https://open.substack.com/pub/melaniephillips/p/nuremberg-at-glastonbury?r=1z5dmo&utm_medium=ios
The attitudes of people in a society towards their minority Jewish populations versus Russian/Chinese is completely unrelated to the policies of one government to another.
It’s actually quite simple to ascertain in this particular conflict which side represents the good guys. Ask yourself one question: what would happen should each of the adversaries somehow lose all their military capabilities? If Iran and their proxies laid down their weapons, there would be no more war. If Israel laid down its weapons, there would be no more Israel.
The inability of so many to distinguish between aggressors and defenders is one of the great moral failings of our age.
Thanks for replying, Liora. I’m afraid I gave up on Melanie Phillips long ago. Bit of a waste of time when so much of her output is based on half-truths and plain hatred: “…the cause of ‘Palestine’ [her quote marks] is founded entirely upon the aim of annihilating Israel…”. Difficult or pointless to debate such historical inaccuracies. But, at the risk of repeating myself, I do seriously worry about the continued conflation of anti-Zionism or anti-Israeli government feeling with anti-Semitism? Don’t you feel that it might lead you to a position of defending the indefensible? Under that standard, is there any criticism you would broach of Israel for anything?// I’ll pass over the ad hominem attacks and use of labels, ‘kapo’, self-hating etc - I don’t think it addresses the issues at hand and it reminds me too much of the Apartheid regime labelling anyone who was against it as a communist. It feels like it’s intended to stifle any alternative views and shut down any analytical challenge. And I want to avoid getting into doctrine as I accept there are many shades not suitable for social media, but surely it can’t be a tenable position to equate an ethnic and religious identity exclusively to a nation State? //On your last point about Israel acting as guarantor of the safety of Jewish people in the Mid East, I think this is a useful point to make. But could it also be argued that its actions, especially that the world is witnessing in Gaza, is actually make it a threat to the lives and safety of Jewish people. Is it credible to think that continued policy and IDF operations will make the problem go away? The point is surely to pursue a robust pathway to peace that guarantees some autonomy for Palestinians in a homeland? That surely is the only basis for a durable peace
If you would like to spend a bit of time down the psychological rabbit hole, check out this deeply insightful article from Jan 2025 - make sure to link to the articles in Fathom Journal by Prof Eve Gerrard which inspired the piece.
https://open.substack.com/pub/canadianzionistforum/p/progressives-for-terror-and-queers?r=1z5dmo&utm_medium=ios
I’m so frustrated with the current government I could scream it from the rooftops - I spent two years as a prolific commenter in the Times of Israel expressing my political views, until it became a cesspool of vile Jew hatred and I quit. Now I read Substack and other articles by gifted people who are able to distinguish the essence of good vs evil before the nuances are debated.
Check out Pat Johnson - gay progressive nonJewish Canadian Zionist. One of the best writers out there.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/gay-liberal-canadian-writer-takes-fellow-non-jews-to-task-one-acerbic-essay-at-a-time/
And of course the incomparable late Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, as per your question of antisemitism vs AntiZionism:
https://rabbisacks.org/archive/future-tense-the-new-antisemitism/
Have you ever visited Israel? Participated in any of the antigovernment protests? I live here and I have. But criticism of the Israeli government is not what is going on at any of those so-called “pro Palestine” protests, which would only be truly in support of the Arabs of Palestine if their genocidal leaders were criticized - which they never are.
Not a fan of Melanie Phillips? She literally states historical truth. Would you prefer the left wing Einat Wilf who says the same thing?
“His Majesty’s Government have thus been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles … For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine”
Quote by British Foreign Minister Ernest Bevin in February 1947 in a speech to the British Parliament explaining why Britain can no longer carry out the mandate with which it was entrusted by the League of Nations and thus sending it back to the United Nation.
Note the date - February 1947: there is no Israel, no refugees, no occupation, no settlements, no blockade - none of the ‘understandable causes’ for Palestinian violence that even the UN Secretary General has fallen for.
And yet, already in February 1947 it is crystal clear why the conflict is already “irreconcilable”: as a matter of top priority, “the essential point of principle”, the Jews want a state whereas as a matter of top priority the Arabs of the land (later known as Palestinians) seek “to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty *in any part* of Palestine”.
That’s the conflict. The Jews want a state in even a part of the land. The Palestinians want the Jews not to have a state in any part of the land. That’s “Free Palestine”. That’s “From the River to the Sea”.
I wouldn't waste any more time with this obvious supporter of Palestinian terrorism, and mass rallies calling for the murder of Jews, which he/she/it is attempting to legitimize.
He is dialoguing respectfully (so far) so I will do the same. If I can perhaps help him to rethink deeply ingrained yet incorrect beliefs it is worth it.
Go fuck yourself, Hamas-fanboy.
America is no better. What happened at Glastonbury was truly nightmarish.
Glastonbury isn´t the UK.
Lets not forget that Hizbolla helped the Asad regime comit a genocide in Syria during the civil war there, including starving over 100,000 Palestinians in the Yarmuk refugee camp, mudered yezidis and and traffic in Yezidi women. Those Yezidi women who refused to become sex slaves were burnt alive. All these sins are falslynprojected onto the IDF, because, well, these western idiots fall for it.
Calls for death of Israels and Jews have been out in the open since Oct. 7.
They’ve been out in the open for several thousand years - this is just the latest episode.
Hi Jo. I've been to 6 national Free Palestine marches in London. In all of them, I've never heard any say death to Israel or Jews. I'm guessing you've not been to one, but it might help to know that one of the slogans is "love Judaism, hate Zionism". Oh, and the Jewish bloc of marchers and individuals wearing badges identifying themselves as Jewish seems to grow every march.
I have not attended but have watched some on video. Putting Jews as tokens in the foreground is not new. I have seen red triangles, swastikas, calls to "globalize the intifada," bloody red hand symbols, signs equating Israeli's with Nazis, and various and relentless riffs on the blood libel. These marchers are marching for the violent elimination of the state of Israel, no? Many wear Hamas garb.
This supporter of Palestinian terrorism, rape and murder is lying and gaslighting.
Hi Jo. In all the marches I’ve been on, I’ve not seen red triangles, swastikas or “globalise the intifada”. On one occasion I saw 3 people, amongst tens of thousands, that could be described as wearing garb looking a bit like the Al Aqsa Brigade, but I can’t read arabic so not sure. But certainly nothing on the blood libel. Also, I don’t think your caricature of “putting Jews as tokens in the foreground” is fair. Many are there as individuals and not “put” by anyone. Some come in small and some large groups, all marching as they want. Those I’ve spoken to say they’re there because it’s on the side of justice and humanity and they feel Israel’s actions are the antithesis of what they feel Judaism is about. You should come along as an observer and make your own judgement about who is coming to those marches and why.
The IDF is an occupying force that is committing genocide. I don't think you've thought this through.
Wow. Three insanely false statements in just two lines. Way to go.
Sure it was. Whatever you say. I'm sure you're right. No doubt everything you say is 100% true.
BTW, what are you sniffing?
Where did you get that information?
His delusions, or more likely from the propagandists who target low-intellect morons like him.
The IDF is not occupying Gaza & there is no evidence of genocide. You need to do your research. I don't think you've thought this through.
So what
Calling Israel genocidal is ignorant and/or malicious.
Israel has been responding to Arab attacks since before statehood in 1948.
Israel has never "destroyed" Arabs or any subgroup thereof. It has never intended to eliminate all or any part of that group.
On the other hand, many Arab groups are specifically genocidal.
Those using the venomous slur of genocide against Israel and the Jewish people should be aware that this bad faith indulgence in hostility has dangerous repercussions both for the Jewish people and for themselves.
Fair minded people recognize the difference between criticizing Israel's war tactics and falsely defaming a nation and a people. The noxious accusations will not be forgotten.
Barry Tigay
No. We'll keep defending ourselves instead.
If your comment about lying Nazis was intended for Marc, you should have responded to him directly.
For the second time in 100 years the believable seems unbelievable. I'm horrified.
Complain. If nothing else it make you feel a bit better.
https://substack.com/@donna883931/note/c-130225050?r=49q9eo&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
Horrible, horrible! Symptoms of the deplorable groupthink created and encouraged by social media. I was reading a Noahpinion Substack on the nomadic future when life is lived mostly online. Made me feel anxious
Once again, you say it so well.i have tickets for Love Supreme next weekend and I'm terrified.
The idf are all terrorists
More breathtaking ignorance - repeating the same stupidity doesn’t make it true.
Lie.
The idf is a terrorist group
Breathtaking ignorance.
Lie.
Apologies Markus but Hamas are not noble resistance fighters.
I completely understand the feeling around the broader situation, but my brain begins to faulter when we start to justify the actions of Hamas.
And yes - also that 100% applies to the IDF as well for the recordsl, but I see far more open support for Hamas and it's no more justifiable.
Apologies Markus but Hamas are not noble resistance fighters.
I completely understand the feeling around the broader situation, but my brain begins to faulter when we start to justify the actions of Hamas.
And yes - also that 100% applies to the IDF as well for the recordsl, but I see far more open support for Hamas and it's no more justifiable.